tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2397377665790588556.post4533303889534192541..comments2022-12-13T13:51:09.590+00:00Comments on Wool gathering of a northern dean: Where are we now on Women as Bishops?Aquiloniushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15098649175728796819noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2397377665790588556.post-58858114737896773992012-06-25T01:10:20.012+01:002012-06-25T01:10:20.012+01:00Was the House of Bishops clever enough to realise ...Was the House of Bishops clever enough to realise that the amendments would effectively split the vote of those in support and cause the measure to fail, or else be kicked into touch for another few years? Or they were not clever enough to have predicted the consequences of their actions - meddling with legislation the overwhelming number of dioceses had already approved.<br /><br />The headlines will say that the all male house of bishops have defied the expressed wish of the dioceses,synod and the overwhelming majority of regular church goers. Let us hope their dioceses are prepared for the substantial fall in revenue that will surely follow.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2397377665790588556.post-27477861964955592832012-06-16T20:28:01.497+01:002012-06-16T20:28:01.497+01:00This appears to be a real possibility - have you l...This appears to be a real possibility - have you listened to MP Ben Bradshaw's wonderfully coherent interview on Radio 4's Yesterday in Parliament? It is as much for parliament's ecclesiastical committee to hold the bishops to account as vice versa and he seems to recognise that they have gone against the clear will of the majority of English Anglicans.Janet Hendersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00663828975134608297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2397377665790588556.post-8132921173016159422012-06-15T11:10:43.043+01:002012-06-15T11:10:43.043+01:00Thank you for both what you have said and the grac...Thank you for both what you have said and the graciousness with which you have said it. The question for me is - how can we get the Bishops to hear and respond in a way that averts the crisis in time for July Synod?LindsaySouthernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10755490167323294947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2397377665790588556.post-37745010409715696302012-06-15T08:35:54.658+01:002012-06-15T08:35:54.658+01:00The worst of the various possible outcomes is that...The worst of the various possible outcomes is that General Synod passes the draft legislation with the Bishops' amendments and Parliament rejects it. This would be immensely damaging to the C. of E.'s ability to communicate the gospel to the nation as it would further confirm in popular thinking that discrimination against women is institutionally embedded in the church - which sadly it seems it is.<br /><br />Thank you for such a clear and helpful post.Nancy Wallacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08414597433860002332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2397377665790588556.post-78976880424459651542012-06-14T22:49:30.405+01:002012-06-14T22:49:30.405+01:00The late Herbert Hensley Henson, sometime Dean and...The late Herbert Hensley Henson, sometime Dean and subsequently Bishop of Durham, certainly did not approve the ordination of women for the Church of England. Nor, indeed, did he ever, whilst Dean, think to refer to himself as a 'rank and file cleric'.<br />His comments would surely have added some great literary highlights to the whole prolonged sorry saga.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2397377665790588556.post-72758322735727213532012-06-14T21:50:57.229+01:002012-06-14T21:50:57.229+01:00Some believe the Church should be 'in' the...Some believe the Church should be 'in' the world, but not 'of' the world.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2397377665790588556.post-8651938128075818812012-06-14T08:44:48.595+01:002012-06-14T08:44:48.595+01:00This is the clearest, and least heated, explanatio...This is the clearest, and least heated, explanation I have seen of what has been happening, so thank-you Decanus Borealis.<br /><br />I thought at the last General Synod that there was a hint of menace in the idea of returning the draft to the House of Bishops for further tinkering. This would have been understandable in a hastily cobbled together draft but, as you say, the Measure was no such thing. If only it had been passed there and then!<br /><br />But we are where we are. It is quite difficult to see, procedurally, how the situation can be redeemed. It would, I think, not happen in a secular organisation, but if the House of Bishops could find it in their collective hearts to withdraw the amendment, then this would provide a solution. Otherwise, either the measure will not pass, which would cause uproar in the dioceses or it will pass, but be rejected in Parliament.<br /><br />If Parliament sends it back, asking for the offending amendments to be removed, it will bring the Church into further disrepute. In its latest statement, the Church of England opposes proposed legislation on same sex marriages, threatening unilateral disestablishment if it becomes law. But the current draft Measure may invite suggestions of disestablishment from the nation.<br /><br />I wrote a blog post about the need for a deus ex machina in this situation. What we really need, of course, is not so much a machine as intervention by the Almighty. Let us pray...Lay Anglicanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16731735543104129849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2397377665790588556.post-16987653074532272452012-06-13T23:50:52.258+01:002012-06-13T23:50:52.258+01:00Sorry Mark, but I can't really see what the Ho...Sorry Mark, but I can't really see what the House of Bishops did as 'valiant'. As Michael reminds us, we are episcopally led and synodically governed. <br /><br />What the HoB did was to set aside synodical governance because it didn't return the right answer. Instead we were treated to an epic display of 'Father Knows Best'. It was a failure of vision - because they could not deal with what Diocesan Synods had sent back to them - and a failure of leadership, because they could not lead us to a place where the majority feel able to follow them. <br /><br />I hope even at this stage the situation can be redeemed.Pam Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03952001402591649389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2397377665790588556.post-71143757910903983552012-06-13T23:28:54.297+01:002012-06-13T23:28:54.297+01:00Thank you Michael for your clarity about this. And...Thank you Michael for your clarity about this. And Mark, I think the difficulty is that there has been so much compromise already on the part of those who believe God calls women and men alike. And this is not just Watch; this is men and women who are normally conciliatory at heart saying we surely must not in conscience institutionalise sexism in the canons of the church.Adriannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2397377665790588556.post-78381107309396467742012-06-13T22:49:29.757+01:002012-06-13T22:49:29.757+01:00I wonder if I may beg to differ with the view expr...I wonder if I may beg to differ with the view expressed by my brother, but much more senior, dean?<br />http://604andallthat.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/604-on-women-bishops.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2397377665790588556.post-23687625225195751912012-06-13T22:49:01.424+01:002012-06-13T22:49:01.424+01:00A very interesting read, stimulating some valuable...A very interesting read, stimulating some valuable thoughts.Alistairnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2397377665790588556.post-9740475889064560932012-06-13T22:11:02.483+01:002012-06-13T22:11:02.483+01:00It puzzles me that in every other aspect of Britis...It puzzles me that in every other aspect of British life there can be no discrimination, whether gender, race, disability etc so why it the debate even taking place? Surely any job or post should be given on merit. The actual Head of the Church of England has managed quite nicely for the past 60 years!Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00524614886901460496noreply@blogger.com